War Diaries Talk

Another aerial photo

  • Stork by Stork

    This diary I'm doing 109 Infantry Brigade, 14 Battalion Royal Irish Rifles (30 Sep 1915 - 27 Feb 1918) has a lot of interesting maps + photos starting about pg 290. This aerial shot has 3 farms and a trench labeled. I think the term 'carpet bombing' can be applied to some of the places in this photo.
    Farms have been mentioned a lot in the last few diaries I've done. The British units seem to be using them for bivouacs and HQs. Am I safe in assuming that these farms are owned by French citizens, with the usual crops and/or livestock? I can't imagine that the farmers are happy about this situation, considering the number of shell holes on the farms in this photo. The farmers must have been wiped out economically.

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  • ral104 by ral104 moderator, scientist

    Yes, they would have been civilian farms, but they wouldn't have been there at this point in the war. I think people moved back fairly quickly after the end of the war, though, and tried to get things back to normal as soon as they could. There was a huge effort involved in clearing the battlefields of surface-level debris and detritus.

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  • cyngast by cyngast moderator

    Another great photo! Thanks for posting it!

    I've found the map that is referenced at the top right: http://maps.nls.uk/view/101464915 It is in Belgium, east of Ypres. Comparing that map to the photo I see that the road that runs almost straight north-south in the left half of the photo actually runs from the northwest at the top towards the southeast to Zonnebeke. I do think that the white crosses at the top of both of the photos do indicate North, as this one is angled to point in that direction.

    All of the armies used farms as HQs, bivouacs, outposts and landmarks. Looking at the map, it is clear that the Canadians had also been there with names like Winnipeg, Toronto, and Quebec sprinkled around. They would establish HQs in the cellars which gave them some protection from shelling.

    At this point in the war, 27 July 1917 during the battle of Passchendaele, the farmers and their livestock were long gone. This photo gives some idea of what it looked like: http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205193419

    Amazingly, many of the demolished farms were rebuilt in the same places. I suppose that after the war, the farmers still held title to their land and so came home and started over. By matching up Google Earth view with this photo and the trench map, I've found that Aviatic Farm and Botlier (spelled Boetleer on the trench map) are still there, although Nile Farm is not. Incidentally, the dark line below Nile Farm is a stream labeled Zonebeck on the trench map.

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  • Stork by Stork

    I've been wondering what the white crosses are- I'm sure you're right, they must indicate direction. I wonder why the bottom one is perfectly vertical/horizontal, while the top one is tipped right at about 45 degrees. The other photo I posted in 'Aerial photo' has the same 2 crosses, but the top one is tipped left about 10 degrees. The top one probably indicates North, which is why it changes, and I don't know what the bottom one is for.

    It's strange that this photo is of Belgium, because I'm sure that this Battalion has spent nearly all of the 2+ years I've tagged in France. I don't remember where they were on 27/7/17, but I'm certain that they have never been as far into Belgium as Passchendaele. They've spent most of their time around Hazebrouck/Arras/Amiens. The O/C or Adjutant must have gotten this photo somehow and stuck it into the diary for historical interest.

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  • marie.eklidvirginmedia.com by marie.eklidvirginmedia.com

    Article on 109 Infantry Brigade, 14 Battalion Royal Irish Rifles (30 Sep 1915 - 27 Feb 1918) Link: http://www.wartimememoriesproject.com/greatwar/allied/battalion.php?pid=6363

    In 1917 They were in action at The Battle of Messines, capturing Wytschaete and in the The Battle of Langemarck during the Third Battles of Ypres and the The Cambrai Operations where the Division captured Bourlon Wood.

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  • ral104 by ral104 moderator, scientist

    The war diary definitely puts them around Ypres at the beginning of August 1917. It looks like they moved back into France on the 24th of August. So the aerial photos will have been related to operations they were directly involved in.

    I'm certain the top cross in each photo indicates the compass bearings now. But like you, Stork, I'm still puzzled over the bottom mark.

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