War Diaries Talk

On pay and rank

  • Tredegar by Tredegar

    Looking through the journal of the 576 Company A.S.C. there are quite a few mentions of acting rank and 6th rank pay, etc. Can anyone explain this system to me? I am curious to see how men were compensated and promoted during the war.

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  • ral104 by ral104 moderator, scientist

    This is all a bit confusing - there's an interesting discussion on it here: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=156820

    I'm sure somebody more expert will correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it 'acting' ranks were supposed to be for short terms duties involving somebody taking on more responsibility. They did not come with a pay increase. 'Temporary' ranks, however, came with the full pay for that rank and I believe came into force when an 'acting' rank had continued beyond a certain period of time. In fact, I believe most officers in the field as the war progressed actually held temporary rank, as they had been recruited after the outbreak of war and there was no expectation that they would continue in the army after the war.

    Brevet ranks are another thing again - this is where the officer holds a rank higher than his substantive rank, but that rank is only valid outside his regiment. So a Major could be brevetted Lt. Col. for special duties that took him outside his regiment, but as soon as he returned, he would be treated as a Major again. I don't believe brevet ranks came with additional pay.

    I'm afraid I've never come across 6th rank pay - do you have an example of that?

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  • 141Dial34 by 141Dial34

    How was the mens pay handled?I often see "men paid out.."How did the wives get money ?Maybe they got a percentage each.I can't imagine a tin under the bed.

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  • ral104 by ral104 moderator, scientist

    Here are indicative pay tables covering the early phases of the war: http://www.1914-1918.net/pay_1914.html

    Men being paid out might refer to them being demobilised and returned to civilian life. Do you have an example of that?

    In terms of how pay was actually collected, I believe the men got a certain of proportion of it out in the field, but not all of it. The remainder could be collected by relatives back at home, with the correct authority (army forms) or deferred for collection later on, perhaps at the point of demobilisation.

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  • cyngast by cyngast moderator

    Rob, I don't have an example handy, but I too have seen references to the men being paid in a fairly regular fashion, such as "Company paid out," especially in some of the smaller units like field ambulances. These comments don't seem to be related to being demobilised. I have tagged these as Army Life--Other.

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  • ral104 by ral104 moderator, scientist

    Okay, excellent - so this must relate to them getting their field pay, which of course would have been a proportion of their full pay. I'll have to look into whether that happened on a regular basis, or whether it was more ad-hoc as and when the unit had the cash to divvy up and hand out.

    Incidentally, I saw a German soldier's pay book recently (Soldbuch) - they had little slips to tear out and give in so they could receive their pay.

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  • cyngast by cyngast moderator

    Your mention of paybooks triggers something in my memory. I know I have seen somewhere a reference to British soldiers' paybooks. Unfortunately, I don't remember if it was in something here or in a book on WWI but it was a case where men going on a raid or attack were to leave behind anything that would identify them, including paybooks. It might have been in one of Lyn Macdonald's books or in orders included in a diary. I wish I could remember.

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  • 141Dial34 by 141Dial34

    6th rate of pay for ral-I don't know how to get it to the right posting spot.

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  • 141Dial34 by 141Dial34

    6th rate of pay explained

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  • HeatherC by HeatherC moderator

    The above posts from @141Dial34 had pages attached to them and of course when I have merged the threads the page does not follow. These are the links to the relevant pages

    http://talk.operationwardiary.org/#/subjects/AWD0002k3j

    http://talk.operationwardiary.org/#/subjects/AWD0002k48

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  • David_Underdown by David_Underdown moderator

    acting rank could be paid or unpaid, which type will be noted in men's records (where they survive). There's also the issue of appointments, at this time lance corporal was not a rank, but an appointment held by a private. The appointment was granted by the CO, and could be just as easily removed again - rank could only be removed by court martial. Specialist corps (eg engineers) also received additional proficiency pay, based on passing tests in their trade speciality.

    A portion of par was usual set aside as an allotment and paid direct to next-of-kin back home.

    So far as officers go it can get even more confusing, as ral104 mentions, most commissions were temporary (literally the commissioning parchment that all new offiers receive was stamped across with temporary), but individual rank could also be temporary. This was slightly more long-lasting than acting rank, which usually was just held as required ie if a battalion was missing a major, the senior captain would act-up, but when a new major was appointed, or returned from leave etc, you'd revert back to captain. If you held acting rank for a certain period of time, then it automatically became temporary rank, and you'd retain that, but it might still be higher than your substantive rank (in the Second World War you get the idea of war substantive rank, which is similar). For senior ranks though, you might act-up on many occasions, but you also had to be listed as fit for promotion, before you'd be allowed to get to the point of it becoming a temporary rank. This is all explained in more detail in Richard Holmes' book Tommy.

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