War Diaries Talk

Additional Information - Commendations

  • clevelandtim by clevelandtim

    Is there a way to tell if a particular soldier was recognized for bravery? Specifically, Lt. Ralph Fane Gladwin of the 7 Div 2 Bat. Scots Guards. In several typed accounts of the action in which he was killed (late Oct '14) fellow officers mention him killing over 200 Germans with his machine gun. I tried to do a simple google search of his name but came up short. Any information would be appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Tim

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  • HeatherC by HeatherC moderator

    The best option for medals and awards is to search the London Gazette http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/search

    However the keyword search is temperamental and sometimes you cannot find and entry even when you KNOW it is there. I have looked quickly for your man and the only entry I can find is of his confirmation as a Lieutenant in August 1914

    Not sure what you found on Google but I searched "ralph gladwin scots guards 1914" and came up with loads of hits including his service record at TNA and a photo of him. Seems he'd been a peacetime officer who was on the Special Reserve when the war started and rejoined the colours. There's no mention of any gallantry award in any of the references I found.

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  • clevelandtim by clevelandtim

    Thanks for the information. I'll try to do some additional searching!

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  • HeatherC by HeatherC moderator

    Do bear in mind that while I agree this extra information makes things interesting for those of us doing the tagging (and I admit I can't resist looking up casualties on the CWGC site just to find out more!) the Project is all about tagging what you see on the page. This thread may be useful here http://talk.operationwardiary.org/#/boards/BWD000000f/discussions/DWD00003kc

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  • clevelandtim by clevelandtim

    Good link thanks for the information.
    I've been coming across information from the war diaries that I've been independently trying to get more information on, mostly to add to the classes I teach on the war.

    Here is one that relates to the unit I am presently tagging (7th Division, 2nd Battalion, Scots Guards). This unit seems to be loaded with well to do officers. In just the first few days of entries The Earl of Stair, Earl of Farlies, Earl of Galloway and Master of Kinnaird have been mentioned. This can't be a normal situation to have so many notable people in one unit or is it? Being from the US I'm not as familiar with titles of nobility as the average person from the UK.

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  • HeatherC by HeatherC moderator

    LOL I can assure you the "average person from the UK" isn't that familiar with the nobility!

    I assume you are looking at the early days of the war so what you are seeing is the "regular army" as it had been pre-war before Kitchener's volunteers swelled its numbers and before it was effectively destroyed by the early battles of the war. In general the Guards Regiments (or Foot Guards as they are more correctly called) did have more than their fair share of titled persons serving. This is most likely because as the Infantry Regiments of the Household Division they take precedence over all other line infantry regiments and they have a primary role of being a garrison for London and providing military protection for the Sovereign.

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  • clevelandtim by clevelandtim

    Awesome. Thanks for 'filing in the blanks' for me. I was initially surprised to see so many presumably wealthy men at the front, many of whom it seems were killed or captured. I'm used to books by Denis Winters that usually paint a portrait of upper class officers being miles from the trenches.

    Hope these questions haven't taken too much of your time,
    Tim

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  • HeatherC by HeatherC moderator

    Hi Tim

    Not at all I'm glad to be of any help and it's great to see people from outside the UK getting involved.

    It's often said that Britain never really recovered from the losses of so many of its "Upper Class" in 1914 and certainly many, many titled families lost their heirs, bringing to the end hundreds of years of traditional ownership of large houses and estates.

    Lyn MacDonald in the final chapter of her excellent book "1914 - The Days of Hope" gives an interesting snippet of information. The 1915 edition of Debrett's peerage (which is described as "the essential reference to the British aristocracy" and gives genealogical details of British "noble" families and their living male relatives) came out many months late because it took so long for the publishers to work out who was actually left alive. Certainly it's not the case that "upper class" officers were miles from the front, as I think the deaths of so many clearly shows.

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  • David_Underdown by David_Underdown moderator

    While there's often a perception that the lower classes were used as cannon fodder, casualty rates were highest among junior officers. These, particularly early in the war, were foten from relatively well-to-do backgrounds, they were the ones who had been to the public schools and universities and had "duty" (to God and their country) well and truly drummed into them, and they were expected to lead from the front. It's also worth looking at the rolls of honour of eg Eton College, and see just how hight their casualty rates were. The war memorials of Parliament are also interesting http://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/building/cultural-collections/memorials/in-the-collection/world-war-i/

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