War Diaries Talk

Unusual ranks

  • spof by spof moderator

    I have come across Brevet Major which is not a rank the Gazette would recognise the man as and also Trumpet Major in one of the cavalry units.

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  • 19KingsLiverpoolRegt by 19KingsLiverpoolRegt

    "Brevet" Major means that he was made a temporary Major. In the absence of a specific database option for that, I suggest recording it simply as Major.

    Trumpet Major is completely different - it's a non-commissioned appointment which could be anything from Sergeant to Warrant Officer. I suggest recording this rank as 'other'.

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  • David_Underdown by David_Underdown moderator

    You certainly will find brevet rank in the Gazette. Richard Holmes explains the ramifications and complications of brevets in relation to acting and temporary rank in "Tommy". Brevet rank is not the same as temporary rank, roughly speaking it was rank in the army as a whole, rather than within your regiment or corps, so you wouldn't usually use the rank while serving in a regimental context, if you were on the staff or other extra-regimental duties, they would be commensurate with the brevet rank, rather than your substantive rank. It could also qualify (I think) towards "time in grade" qualification for substantive promotion to higher rank, ie (not so much during wartime, but) there were requirements along the lines of you had to have held the rank of major for x years before you could become a substantive lt-col. If x was 4 say, if you'd been a brevet major for 2 years and substantive major for 2 more, that would count.

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  • BobHovercraft by BobHovercraft

    I came across a 'Surgeon General' GUINNESS - I listed rank as 'none' as was unsure of what to put - any advice if I see that rank again as to what I should log it as?

    Many thanks!

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  • HeatherC by HeatherC moderator

    No option to put Squadron Sergeant Major as a rank.

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  • charcinders by charcinders

    In my last batch of diaries I've seen a marshal (Foch), a duke (of Connaught) and a bishop (of Lichfield)!

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  • kds01 by kds01

    No option for Interpreters. I classify them as 'other'. Hope this is OK;

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  • paratsoukli by paratsoukli

    Not sure now if this is the right board, but tagging 1 Div Train(is this 'puff puff or something else?) I find a rank that appears to be 'S&CS' followed in brackets by 'a/Farr S.Sgt' which latter is self evident; but what is the first , obviously substantive rank?

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  • paratsoukli by paratsoukli

    Stupid boy, it's the baggage train of course; can anyone help on the rank abbreviation though?

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  • HeatherC by HeatherC moderator

    No it's not the right place - the big thread above it entitled "don't post here any more" was the clue 😛 However don't worry I'll try and move the whole thread to the right place in a minute!

    Can you give us a link to the page? It's going to be something like Shoeing Smith Corporal (part rank and part trade appointment as is Farrier Staff Sgt)

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  • wildcatjenny by wildcatjenny moderator in response to paratsoukli's comment.

    Hello.
    Heather is likely on the right track. Something like "Sergeant and Colour Sergeant" ? A link might help so we can see it in context.

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  • lnnseagan by lnnseagan

    No rank found for SSM, suppose have to put it in "other".

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  • ral104 by ral104 moderator, scientist

    I guess that's Squadron Sergeant Major, which would be the same as Company Sergeant Major, I think.

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  • lnnseagan by lnnseagan

    There is a Sadd Corpl at the hussars. Anyone?

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  • HeatherC by HeatherC moderator

    Corporal is the rank, saddler is the trade / proficiency (like farrier or fitter) which attracted extra pay. Tag him as a Corporal.

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  • f0rbe5 by f0rbe5

    I've just come across a BQMS (https://talk.operationwardiary.org/#/subjects/AWD0003oai), which my little brain suggests is a Battery Quarter-Master Sergeant (I'm working on an artillery brigade!), who has received a DCM. As there's no BQMS option under 'Rank' and he's clearly not a Battery Sergeant Major, I've recorded him as a Regimental Quarter-Master Sergeant (Company Quarter-Master Sergeant seems a bit too low in comparison), but presumably there's quite a lot of BQMSs in the British Army in WWI and perhaps they deserve their own line in 'Rank'?

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  • f0rbe5 by f0rbe5

    To add to my last (above), I've just come across another BQMS given a commission on 15 Jan 15.

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  • ral104 by ral104 moderator, scientist

    No, tag BQMSs as Company Quarter Master Sergeants. We haven't included absolutely every rank in the list, as it would get pretty unwieldy, but BQMS and CQMS are equivalents.

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  • f0rbe5 by f0rbe5

    Another new rank has appeared, Fitter (https://talk.operationwardiary.org/#/subjects/AWD0003o8c), in September 1915. As the Army becomes more technical, there's probably going to be some more technical trades come along - I know artificer is going to be one, for example, if it hasn't already (but I can't find any mention of it).

    What are we going to rank these as? Unlike the BQMS/CQMS issue above, it is probably important to record these separately in some way, as it will show the increasing complexity of the Army and the skill sets required to meet that complexity...

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  • ral104 by ral104 moderator, scientist

    Fitter was an appointment, rather than a rank. You might see things like Fitter Corporal or Fitter Sergeant. In this case, I would tag them as a private, as no additional rank is given. Being a fitter might well have attracted extra pay, however.

    It would be nice to have a way of capturing appointments and so on - it's on the list of improvements, if we ever get any money to do additional work.

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  • f0rbe5 by f0rbe5

    I came across a diary page someone had already tagged but querying the rank of S&C Smith. I've found an answer (Shoeing & Carriage Smith). The source of the answer might be of use to many of us.. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/records/abbreviations-in-world-war-one-medal-index-cards-rank.pdf. There's a similar page covering unit abbreviations - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documents/records/abbreviations-in-world-war-one-medal-index-cards-unit.pdf.

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  • ral104 by ral104 moderator, scientist

    Thanks! Very useful references.

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