War Diaries Talk

Dates, Times and Places

  • brownfox by brownfox

    A few general questions:

    Dates: My current diary (2 DIVISION: Divisional Troops: Divisional Signal Company. (1 Aug 1914 - 31 Dec 1914) ) often has an entry for each day and each night, so you'll have an entry for 12th October, then one for the night 12th-13th, then one for the 13th etc. I've been treating the night of 12th-13th as part of the 12th, so the date tag for the 13th comes after that entry. Is that correct?

    Times: How do we show times of noon and midnight? The interface forces us to choose either am or pm. For the moment, I've been entering 12:00 AM for noon and 12:00 PM for midnight but it would help to be consistent.

    Places: Often, entering the name as it was originally written doesn't give a match or gives only incorrect matches. Often the names are misspelt, but additionally it seems that the placename search is limited and only finds places in France that are communes or larger settlements. There is no way to match smaller hamlets etc. So, for example, the company is based in Bourg (according to what' written). Entering Bourg returns a number of matches but none in the correct area. Investigation of the places around shows that this must be part of the commune of Bourg-et-Comin and entering Bourg-et-Comin does allow the correct place to be located. (1) Should we always enter the name exactly as it is written, just correct spelling errors or change the name in order to get a match where we know one exists. (2) There also seems to be an issue with matching places when an apostrophe (not uncommon in French placenames) is entered. No list of matches appears, not even the 'Don't know' option.

    Many thanks
    Steve

    Posted

  • HeatherC by HeatherC moderator

    Dates: Good question and I don't think there is a definitive answer. Often you can tell from the sense of the diary where the split between days comes. For example if they are talking about a night attack then it's probably the first day. If they are talking about dawn then probably the second. It's not all that crucial exactly where the divider goes so do what seems sensible.

    Times: We did ask months ago for 12 noon and 12 midnight options to be added but they never have been. So again there's no definitive answer. Be consistent within the diary if you can.

    Places: We have previously said enter as written as it stays more true to the text of the diary. However if it's an obvious error (i.e. they just didn't know how to spell it and sometimes this is obvious!) it's OK to change it so the geo-locator picks it up. Again there's no hard and fast rule with this, so do what seems right to you. I don't know the answer to your second question about apostrophes but if the geo-locator won't recognise them then leave them out?

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  • f0rbe5 by f0rbe5

    Times: I have only just noted in the Field Guide that we should only be tagging times recorded in the Time column of diaries - but many units seem to have written up their diaries at the end of the working day (7 p.m., for instance), but record all the times of activity during the day (under fire, unit movements, attacks, etc. in the narrative). I had been tagging all times regardless of their location in order to sweep all that up. Should I continue, or desist?

    Posted

  • HeatherC by HeatherC moderator in response to f0rbe5's comment.

    It's true that some units don't record any useful times in the "time" column but do instead put them in the main text! Despite what the Field Guide says it's really up to you. If you think a certain time is crucial to understanding the narrative then feel free to put it in. Don't feel obliged to put in every single time though - some of them really aren't all that useful! As ever the date tags are the most important ones to get right for the timeline.

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  • tvc15 by tvc15

    How about putting 12:01 PM for noon and 12:01 AM for midnight? That would clarify.

    Posted

  • wildcatjenny by wildcatjenny moderator in response to tvc15's comment.

    Hi tvc15,
    Sounds logical - but probably not a good idea because we have been asked to tag what the diary actually says. (With the exception of obvious errors like misspelling.) I'd just keep using 12PM for noon and 12AM for midnight.
    wildcatjenny

    Posted

  • MitreSquareMurder by MitreSquareMurder

    The author of the diary I'm currently working on has a habit of changing the spelling of towns (like Noeux Des Mines) every couple of pages (or even lines). In light of this, I think I'm justified in changing the spelling on all pages so that the geolocator will pick up that the unit is in the same place, despite the freedom in spelling?

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  • HeatherC by HeatherC moderator in response to MitreSquareMurder's comment.

    That sounds quite sensible to me. I assume he'd forgotten how he had spelled it the last time!

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  • deehar by deehar

    What are we supposed to do with placenames that are obviously made up like HARLEY STREET, WINDY CORNER and VESUVIUS (a crater)? I have been tagging them with no chance of them being recognized by the geolocator. I am pretty sure these names will appear on the trench maps. Have I missed some guidance elsewhere on this site ?

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  • brownfox by brownfox

    I believe that you're doing it correctly - future researchers may well need to find all mentions of the made up names. (Note that this is different from mentions of point A, or trench 4, which shouldn't be tagged as they are likely vary from time to time and operation to operation.)

    Incidentally, both Harley Street and Windy Corner can be located on a modern map based on the info here: http://www.ww1battlefields.co.uk/others/cuinchy.html if you're interested.

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  • HeatherC by HeatherC moderator

    The Field Guide (which should be your first stop for this kind of question (access it through the link at the top of the tagging page) has this to say under the description of the "Place" tag - "Ignore locations that do not have a proper place name eg ignore Camp F or Hill A. Do tag named trenches or positions eg Jupiter Trench."

    So yes, @brownfox is spot on

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